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« on: February 20, 2007, 04:08:52 am » |
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Opened this topic for replacing Gamefaq's "official" thread (which gets always deleted for some lame reason).
Ok guys, carry on with the discussion!
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« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2007, 07:36:07 pm » |
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Opened this topic for replacing Gamefaq's "official" thread (which gets always deleted for some lame reason).
Ok guys, carry on with the discussion!
Well, there's not that much to discuss until there's some progress. In all seriousness though, how's it coming along? You haven't made any updates. Don't worry, I'm not the impatient type who's going to bug you repeatedly, it's just for the sake of the discussion and for those who may eventually find out about your project. Do you plan to translate and/or scan the manual? I'm fairly handy with Photoshop, so I believe that I could easily fix up a final English-language manual if you had scans and the translated text. Just a thought. |
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« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2007, 07:40:03 pm » |
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took a while to relize you made a topic on your board already, perhaps you should make mention of it on the gamefaqs IS board so everyone knows where to discuss this, if it took me a few days to notice so I'm sure others haven't picked up on it as well, unless you already said something that I didn't see. Back to the topic, I find it strange that after months you haven't posted any progress and its been at 22% for a long time, surely you have a percent or two more done, well I don't know what you need to do so I won't complain or try to rush you. Anyways, I take it this is for all discussions that were in the other thread at gamefaqs including the megami tensei translation plans by neox. Well thats all I have to say, just wanted to say something so everyone here knows I found the topic and such.
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« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2007, 04:49:14 am » |
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hey I noticed your topic on gamefaqs and decided to follow it along to here, I look forward to your work on the translation and wish you the best of luck
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« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2007, 09:36:05 am » |
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Well, there's not that much to discuss until there's some progress. In all seriousness though, how's it coming along? You haven't made any updates. I know. :/ I've been pretty busy lately due to University, my translator being kidnapped by aliens (just sent him an email), and a *secret* project I'm currently working on. Do you plan to translate and/or scan the manual? There's no plan for that right now, but maybe you could send Tom some scans and I'll ask him to translate those. PS: Thanks to everybody for posting on my forums. |
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« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2007, 03:01:55 am » |
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I'll be keeping my eye on this. As far the necessity of a percentage, I think it would be wise to just disgard all care for such things. Percentages have never really meant anything in the realm of translation hacking for as long as I've been exposed to it.
It'll be done when it's done. And as for that, thanks Gemini.
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« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2007, 06:43:53 pm » |
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The manual is almost 60 colored page, i think it's gonna be a pain to translate it all.i think most people who'll hunt IS would've probably played EP, i wouldn't need a manual that tells me how to change a persona or how to make a fusion attack,or even how to make a contact with the demons
so the manual translation isn't that crucial.
Although there IS some really interesting notes that i really would like to understand since i believe it will explain the story accurately and give a nice background on the characters, like the "introduction" on Page3, "STORY" on P5,"CHARACTERS" on P6-7-8 and "DATA" on P53~57.
Another translation point that i'm really concerned about is the honorific system.Personally i think "Maya-nee" would kick "Big-sister Maya" ass anytime of the day.I mean it really show how the "children" look at Maya,also it has a certain motherly presence which is regularly hinted in Maya's personality which "Big-sister Maya" just can't seem to grasp.
Also "Ta-chan" "kun" or "san" really reflects how's the talker thinks of the person he/she's speaking to.Since this is a fan to fan work, and since Persona is all about characters interaction with each other,i really would like to see the original meaning kept as true as possible.
And i kinda agree with DD that updating the percentage isn't all that big a deal as long as work is being done,and since i see Gemini-sama's been active in different Megaten sites i know he's been doing his best on it.
Will,That's what was on top of my mind,till something worth it pops up again. . .I'll see you guys later.
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« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2007, 06:56:35 pm » |
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I thought I would drop in and see what was being done in terms of a translation effort. I'm a huge Persona 2: Eternal Punishment fan and have been dying to play Innocent Sin for a long time now.
Basically I just wanted to give Gemini and all involved a big pat on the back for working on creating a translation to such a great game. I wish you all the best and will be checking back periodically to see how things our progressing.
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« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2007, 10:21:30 pm » |
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Another translation point that i'm really concerned about is the honorific system.Personally i think "Maya-nee" would kick "Big-sister Maya" ass anytime of the day.I mean it really show how the "children" look at Maya,also it has a certain motherly presence which is regularly hinted in Maya's personality which "Big-sister Maya" just can't seem to grasp.
Also "Ta-chan" "kun" or "san" really reflects how's the talker thinks of the person he/she's speaking to.Since this is a fan to fan work, and since Persona is all about characters interaction with each other,i really would like to see the original meaning kept as true as possible.
I really don't agree adding honorrific add-ins will do anything to enhance the gameplay in fact I think that it would sort of detract from it, sure the whole big sister maya line isn't any good but I think you'd be better off just sticking to sub-text for how a character feels and sort of emphasizing what they say instead of formal japanese naming. It may stick true to the translation but if you don't localize it to the target audience (people who don't use the japanese nomenclature) then I feel it really loses its meaning and thats where so many fan translation can go awry, trying to be too literal with the translation and not trying to really showcase the message behind it |
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« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2007, 10:19:32 am » |
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I really don't agree adding honorrific I agree, infact there won't be any honorific shit like kun, chan, sempai or whatever. I mean, it's English what we are translating to, not Japanese. Except for Japanophiles or Japanese experts, nobody would understand what those words are for, so it's just pointless having them in a different language. |
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« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2007, 10:16:09 am » |
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G...Gemini-sama...y-you know, y-you could've been a less more direct than that. . . . . ."shit""Japanophiles""pointless" ;_;
I-I know that this project is targeting english speakers, but my -anime brainwashed- brain just thought that maybe a good portion of those who'll track this project would also be kinda of anime influinced and that they'll also like the anime art style of Persona and it's settings.
That and the fact that the Persona series is very japanese in it's nature -always taking place in japan, japanese high school life,j-pop culture- that i thought that sensei,chan and other suffixes would actually seem natural -wich personally I think it is- in that kind of environment.
Anyway,this is a trivial matter compared to what we'll be getting eh?
Still love you like a maiden in love though! Laters.
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« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2007, 01:17:49 pm » |
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G...Gemini-sama...y-you know, y-you could've been a less more direct than that. . . . . ."shit""Japanophiles""pointless" ;_; Sorry, but that's what I think when I'm watching a fan-subbed anime where that disgusting crap is still in. No serious translator would ever do that. There are several techniques for replacing them with something more target language oriented, like using a proper register or English honorifics. |
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« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2007, 01:23:49 pm » |
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I'll agree on the no-japanese-jargon agenda. P2:EP had an excellent translation, and there wasn't any of that in there; the story did not suffer any from it.
I'm interested to see how you handle Lisa's situation.
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« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2007, 08:25:49 pm » |
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I think it would be silly if someone actually thought that it would take away from the story significantly by choosing "not" to use terms like -chan, kun, sempai, whatever.
And to be honest I prefer that they wern't included, though if they were it would not do harm - especiallyif it was in there to begin with.
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« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2007, 12:47:28 am » |
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I''ve been following this for a while (sense the topic was on GameFAQ) and personally agree that it would be better to go without Japanese honorifics. It would make it flow better with P2:EP. If people want the honorific details that could be lost in translation, I'm sure that there are P2:IS fan sites that fill in those gaps.
Good luck Gemini, and I'm sure there are other loomers out there that will greatly appreciate your efforts on this patch. I'll go hide and resume looming now.
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« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2007, 10:11:55 pm » |
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I think the honorifics are useless to include, as they have little to no meaning in English. One doesn't have to be familiar with Japanese to know about -san, and those who are familiar (if even vaguely) with it wouldn't suddenly be lost if they weren't there. They're part of everyday conversation, so it's as if they're implied even if they're dropped. I could understand the issue with reflecting things like big sister-type relations, but that's something that can be dealt with in the mix or through other means. I think that Maya's personality in that regard was mentioned in the EP manual. Translator's notes or a translation of the manual would be an excellent place to deal with these issues. Things like "sensei" would be more than appropriate to leave in, I think, though "-chan" is debateable. It could be one of those honorifics that could be used or excluded depending upon the situation.
When it comes to translations in other media, like print and video, I don't like honorifics. I know they're there, especially if I'm watching it subtitled, so there's no reason to put it on the screen. It's even more ridiculous with dubs. However, leaving them in IS wouldn't make the game more anime-like. It would simply make it remniscent of some poor translation choices made by a few firms who translated the anime scripts for dubbing. There are only two times when honorifics should be left in a translation: when it is absolutely essential or when a character who is of non-Japanese origin is supposed to be speaking Japanese and adhering wholly to the by-the-book lessons they had taken. There are certain Japanese words that are probably too culturally signifigant to be translated outright, things that are often times left alone with a side note displayed explaining the word in detail. It's something seen in subtitled translations of interviews and doramas, and something I think is completely acceptable. Of course, this is another case where the translation would have to be tweaked. Otherwise, you would again require a set of translator's notes. While I can't say that I really know Gemini, I have a feeling that he'll be able to make the proper choices when it comes down to what should and shouldn't be used in order to make a proper and coherent translation that is true to the source material, rather than an Atlus Persona 1-style butchering or a Carl Macek rescripting.
As far as translating a 60-page manual, what's so difficult? Compare it to the text of the entire game - something you have to dig out, translate, and hack back in - and it's nothing. I don't know what being full color has to do with it either. Photoshop is an amazing tool. Whatever can't be edited properly can be rebuilt or replaced. Sure, not everyone needs a manual, but it might be a nice thing to have. Let's face it, if you're not using an emulator to play the final product, you're going to patch an .iso and burn a copy for use on your PS. Some people like to have custom packaging to fill up an otherwise empty case that they've stuck the disc in. Some people like manuals as well, though not everyone does.
Now, I don't have an IS manual, but even without scans, if I just had the translated text and basic layout, it'd be easy to combine with various P2 artwork for an official-looking manual that could be printed out. Yes, it's not a necessary detail, but some people might like it, even if they never view it outside of a .pdf file. Personally, I just thought it'd be a fun project for me and a way to contribute. I'm not a coder and my knowledge of the Japanese language is at the level of an infant, but I've got a decent enough eye for layout and ability with Photoshop and Illustrator to make something that looks like an official product. I'm not proclaiming myself a god of Photoshop, it's just not a very difficult task and I've got the patience of a rock.
Gemini, are there any FMVs that contain voice-overs that need translation? The guy who did the Bloody Bride translation was able to extract the videos, subtitle them, and reinsert them. If you plan to do something like this, you might want to scout out his site if you don't already know how to do so.
Sorry, I know this was a long post but I've been trying to make it for most of the last week now, and more opinions have made it into the mix.
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« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2007, 02:03:05 am » |
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I played through the entire game a little over a year ago and don't recall ant voice acting whatsoever, so there are no voices to translate.
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« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2007, 11:46:06 am » |
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Gemini, are there any FMVs that contain voice-overs that need translation? There is a movie containing some text to translated (the intro) and another one at the end with all the characters talking. Already took care of them aeons ago. |
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« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2007, 08:34:00 pm » |
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yea I forgot about that one little bit at the end, same FMV was also included in eternal punishment with english voice over, did you sub it or just include the eglish version from EP.
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« Reply #19 on: March 03, 2007, 08:38:14 pm » |
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yea I forgot about that one little bit at the end, same FMV was also included in eternal punishment with english voice over, did you sub it or just include the eglish version from EP.
Just like everywhere else: english subtitles, japanese voices. Btw, I can't remember that movie in EP. Are you sure anything like that actually exists? O_o |
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